At the moment, there are only 2 hybrids on sale in Malaysia; the Civic Hybrid and the third generation Prius. The new revised prices for the Civic Hybrid is RM 108,980 while the Prius retails at RM 139,000, both prices are on the road for Peninsular Malaysia inclusive of insurance. The nearly RM 30,000 gap between the Civic Hybrid and Prius meant that both hybrid models appeal to a different crowd and comparison between the two models are purely academic at best, irrelevant to those who will actually pay money to buy either of these cars. So readers should keep this in mind when reading the following text below. However we at theautoindustrieblog believe that potential buyers will still be interested in making comparisons, and at present, there is only 1 other hybrid model they can compare their choice with, even if it is purely for academic reasons.
Two different worlds, two different characters
The Civic Hybrid is meant to be an affordable hybrid of sorts, and it is built from a lower cost base, with a more compact, lighter but less powerful hybrid motor. The Prius however, is a far more sophisticated car, is larger and heavier but offering far higher levels of performance. Hence the significantly higher price tag. For the layman, the Civic Hybrid can be thought of as the equivalent of a 1.8-litre conventional petrol powered car while the Prius is the equivalent of a 2.4-litre conventional petrol powered car.
The nature of how petrol-electric hybrid power plants work meant that a direct apple-apple comparison of power output is not possible. Peak power outputs of both the electric motor and petrol engine of a hybrid car are achieved at different point of time / rpm. Thus one can't just compare the power output of a Civic Hybrid and compare it directly with a Civic 1.8S. For example, a Civic 1.8S only achieves its maximum torque of 174Nm at a rather high 4,300rpm. In the Civic Hybrid, the electric motor already achieves its peak torque of 103Nm (more than half of the Civic 1.8S) from 0 rpm onwards until 1,160 rpm. Speeds that the Civic 1.8S is only barely picking itself up. At higher speeds, the petrol engine of the Civic Hybrid takes over and peaks out at 4,600 rpm (123Nm). The Prius is even more impressive, producing 546Nm of torque, from standstill! Hence the concencus that the Civic Hybrid, though with a smaller 1.3-litre hybrid petrol engine should be compared against a 1.8-litre car while the Prius, with its 1.8-litre hybrid petrol engine should be compared against a 2.4-litre car.
In real life city stop-go city driving conditions, hybrids generally offer a more responsive yet relaxing (reduced noise and vibration from the electric motor) drive than a conventional petrol engine car.
Frequently Asked Questions
Since we are neither salesman nor PR personnels, we answer this in the most honest way.
1. How long does a hybrid engine last?
2. How much does it cost to replace the hybrid battery?
The two most frequently asked question regarding hybrid cars - and honestly we think it is a really stupid question. We really do. The next time you consider to buy a Corolla or a Civic, are you going to ask how much does it cost to replace the Dual VVT-i or i-VTEC engine? Or how long will it last? How do you expect the salesman to answer questions like that?
The hybrid engine is the single most important part of the car - of course it is made to last the lifespan of the car and it is not meant to be replaced if used under normal circumstances! Lifespan of the car can be anything from 10 years to 15 years, again depending on the sort of abuse it was subjected to. After which significant refurbishment work is required to maintain the same performance levels. Just like how a normal car would. So obviously no car manufacturer is able to give a definite figure on how long will the hybrid engine last!
But if you have to know, Honda Malaysia's official statement is that the hybrid battery in the Civic Hybrid will last between 10 to 12 years. UMW Toyota makes no such official statement however Toyota offices in other countries in USA, Europe and Australia claims 15-years, and they have no records of hybrid component failures in cars below 300,000km. Prius is used as taxis in New York and Vancouver and also in hot climate countries like Australia and Singapore. Two second generation Prius taxis became famous for clocking for 500,000km with no component failure.
The 500,000km mileage Prius taxi from Canada
The 550,000km mileage Prius taxi from Australia
Some online forumers have been saying that Honda / Toyota provides a longer 8-year warranty on the hybrid batteries. This is not true. Warranty period for the hybrid battery is the same as the vehicle warranty period (3-years). Certain markets where hybrids are already very popular, Toyota / Honda do offer extended warranties there but these are not factory warranties covered by Toyota Motor Co or Honda Motor Co. but are covered by either a third party insurance company or even by the local Toyota or Honda distributor's office.
The key electric assist motor of the Honda IMA is attached to the flywheel, you can clearly see it here with the many copper winding bits. The motor provides electric propulsion even when the engine is shut down and generating electricity under braking, all done from a compact and light package.
The Prius is a far more complicated car, and explaining it would require a separate post and you might need a degree in electrical engineering to fully understand its working. It has not 1 but two separate electric motors (MG1 and MG2)
And if you really need to know about the replacement cost of a hybrid battery - it's around RM20,000 (including parts & labour) but we understand that prices have been dropping. Don't expect the salesman to give you an answer for this. It's way beyond his job scope. It is not realistic to expect him to keep a price list of spares, and even if he does tell you a figure, it may not be correct, for reasons mentioned above. Best to check with Honda's customer care line at 1-800-88-2020, but is operational only on weekdays office hours. Again don't expect the person at the end of the line to be able to give you an immediate answer. Unfortunately they do not have any email contact. This is where Toyota's operations got a double thumbs up from us. Send them your questions here. We would much prefer a written statement to avoid misunderstanding over the phone. Different enquiries are allocated to different channels. Again, hybrid battery replacement cost is a really pedantic question, irrelevant in our opinion. Of course it will cost you an arm / leg, just like how much it will cost to replace a transmission and engine block in any conventional car.
3. What about resale value?
This is a more valid question, but is a question that nobody can answer. Anyone who claims otherwise is only trying to play the role of a gypsy reading signs for the future. What we can do however is to offer some comparison from neighboring countries. Singapore have introduced hybrid cars for about 10 years now, and the market is slowing warming up to it. A quick check at Singaporean classifieds show that a year 2007 Civic Hybrid fetches about the same price as a similar year 2007 Civic 1.6 petrol, around SGD 56,000. In other words, there is no significant difference in the resale value of a hybrid variant versus a similarly priced conventional petrol engine version. We use the Civic rather than the Prius as a comparison because the Civic offers both hybrid and petrol version of the same model, and the Civic 1.6 is priced closest to the Civic Hybrid when new. Singapore car prices can vary significantly from year to year, depending the COE rates so we can't give a their 2007 price when new. Currently, the Civic Hybrid retails at SGD 113k while the Civic 1.6 retails at SGD 111k. However if you are looking at selling the car within the next 5-years, there could be issues because most used car valuers simply would not know how to estimate their market value.
4. How much does it cost to maintain a hybrid car
Same as how much it will cost to maintain a Corolla or a regular Civic. As mentioned, the electronic hybrid components are not serviceable components and are not meant to be replaced under normal circumstances. So there are no maintenance cost associated to them. Only visual inspection and the periodic software updates are necessary. Regular mechanical components like oil and air filters and brake pads, spark plugs etc etc are shared with mainstream models like the Corolla and RAV4 (for the Prius) and a regular Civic (for the Civic Hybrid).
Over a 100,000 km mileage, total servicing cost for a Toyota Prius, inclusive of labour, parts and applicable taxes is only slightly below RM 4,000. Part of the reason for the lower cost for the Prius is because it has a longer 10,000 km / 6 months service interval, thus requires less frequent visits to the service center. In a year, you only spend RM 800 on average to service the Prius. We know of many regular petrol cars that cost a lot more to maintain over the same mileage.
Civic Hybrid - what you need to know
What we like :
1. Built quality
We admit it's a little subjective, but from our experience, even when compared to a Thai-built Corolla Altis, the Pegoh, Melaka locally made Civics left us wanting more in terms of interior built quality. Things just don't seem to screwed together as well as a Corolla Altis and interior plastic parts don't sit seamlessly with other panels. The Civic Hybrid on the other hands comes fully imported CBU from Suzuka, Japan, hence has a much higher fit and finish quality. Coupled that with its low price, you got the best built quality Civic that is priced lower than the locally made versions. Double WIN.
2. The price
It's the cheapest Civic on sale! And the kit level is still pretty decent. You lose some superficial items like printed glass printed antenna, dual tail pipe and smaller wheels (15", an inch smaller but aids fuel economy so we're not complaining). But we doubt the actual buyers of the Civic Hybrid will miss these items.
3. Space, driving dynamics
Basically all the usual plus points of a Civic interior and driving performance remains. Although there is a slight reduction in boot space for the Civic Hybrid (13-litres less)
What we don't like :
1. Safety
While 4 airbags are offered, against only 2 in the Civic 1.8, we are disappointed to know that the addition of side airbags was done in exchange for the omission of VSA, Honda speak for ESC. We think this contradicts the hierarchy of importance for safety features. Independent studies have confirmed that ESC is the second most important safety feature after seatbelts, even more important than airbags. The European Commission, ADAC, DEKRA, EuroNCAP and FIA all agree on this. ESC will keep you away from a crash in the first place. But unfortunately, consumers are more interested in paying for pyrotechnic show - hence they prefer airbags, which explains Honda's decision. But if you are considering a hybrid, statistically, you are more educated and more exposed and are less likely to follow conventional wisdom that are incorrect.
2. 5,000km service interval
Cars are meant to be on the road, put to good use like how they are meant to. Not stuck at the service centers for between half to a whole day every 3 months or less. Prius offers 10,000km service interval though.
3. Engine auto start-stop function
Honda's IMA hybrid system does not start-stop the petrol engine as seamlessly as a Prius. You still feel some slight judder everytime you are in traffic and lifts your foot off the brake pedal to the gas pedal.
4. Fuel economy
Surprised to read this? Ignore than Japan 10-15 combined mode figures 31 km per litre as it is irrelevant and does not represent real world driving conditions. The EU combined cycle figure of 21.7km per litre is more realistic however don't expect to achieve this with no serious effort of hypermiling. A more realistic figure is around 17km per litre. Which isn't really that great for all the promises of a hybrid.
Plus, early this year there was a recall for Civic Hybrid to update the power management software. Reports were coming from USA and Japan that a small number of owners were facing premature reduction in their hybrid battery performance. Honda attributed this to extreme operation environment and issued a software update. Many owners reported that their fuel economy got worse after the fix, which tries to extend the lifespan of the battery by shifting some load away from the battery and more towards the petrol engine, negating the whole point of a hybrid. The fuel economy figures mentioned above were based on pre-update cars and we doubt the same figures can be replicated with the current updated cars.
In the defense of Honda, all hybrid batteries will suffer reduced lifespan if they are subjected to frequent rapid power discharge / recharge (rapid acceleration / deceleration). Operation in hot weather conditions will exagerate this. Drive them sensibily and they will last the lifetime of the car.
Verdict - buy or bye?
Buy. But only because it is the cheapest Civic on the market and not because it is a hybrid. As a hybrid car, the Civic Hybrid is far from perfect, especially on its promised fuel economy gains when a Honda Jazz can easily match the fuel economy figures. Buy it because because it is the cheapest, best built quality Civic with the added bonus (rather than the main reason of purchase) of lower fuel consumption compared to a regular sedan, then you won't be disappointed.
Prius - what you need to know
What we like :
1. Performance
It has more than adequate power for your daily driving needs. It drives and fits like a proper full size sedan, and may we say - even more comfortable than a similarly priced Camry. We love the refinement and how quiet it is at highway speeds, and is even quieter at urban speeds.
2. Fuel economy
Official EU combined cycle figure is 25.6km per litre, better than the Civic Hybrid. But again, a more realistic figure most drivers can achieve on their daily commute is around 21 km per litre. Which is still exceptional for a car that delivers the performance of a 2.4-litre car.
3. Ergonomics and interior space
Sit inside the Prius and you get a sense of calmness and everything is laid out neatly. There is also a slight hint that you are playing the role of a Star Fleet Commander abroad The Enterprise. Trekkies will get it. The boot swallows 446 litres. For comparison, a Camry has a 504 litre boot space. The Civic Hybrid in comparison only holds a paltry 376 litres. To many people, it is the only car they will ever need.
4. Safety
ESC, (or VSC in Toyota speak) along with ISOFIX child seat support is standard.
5. Engine auto start-stop function
Besides the performance, this is the other most noticeable feature when compared back to back against the Civic Hybrid, the stark difference in the seamless switching between electric motor-petrol engine reminds you where the additional RM30k went to.
6. Heads up display
So you can play Maverick like in the movie Top Gun. It's a gimmick but one that we guarantee you will be having a load of good time wow-ing anyone from your mother in-law to your drinking buddies for a long time.
What we don't like :
1. The price
But we are really nitpicking here. For the same amount of money - there isn't any other car on the market that delivers the same level of performance coupled with similar green credentials. We tried very hard but its the only flaw we can find with the vehicle.
Verdict - buy or bye?
Buy. Because it is the most complete hybrid car on sale today. With its acceptable performance and an achievable frugal fuel economy, it does live up to the promises of hybrid technology. Drive one in an urban traffic, you will catch yourself sitting inside a calm and quiet cabin with no vibration from the engine, inching along under electronic power, wondering why aren't all cars made that way. For most people, it will be the only car you will need.
What else should you consider? :
VW's new Polo TSI delivers the performance of a 1.8-litre (it's torque figure is higher than a Civic 1.8, achieved at lower engine speed) with the fuel economy of a 1.2-litre car - for only around RM 110k plus on the road inclusive of insurance. The interior build quality and ergonomics puts many other more expensive Japanese cars to shame. High speed stability, ride and handling is its strongest forte.
Further up, the Golf 1.4 TSI offers even more of the same plus points, retails for around RM160k on the road once you load up the full options list. Its power output is comparable to an Accord 2.4! Both these German hatches offers outstanding power output with even more outstanding fuel economy achieved with a lot less fancy electronics. Best example of simplicity that works.
Don't make any decision until you give these two models a try. You have noting to lose.
What's coming soon?
Honda Insight - estimated Jan 2011.
Has a newer more compact, lighter and more powerful version of the Civic Hybrid's 1.3-litre IMA powertrain, but clothed in a unique body. The Insight is meant to be an affordable hybrid, with a base price even lower than that of the Civic Hybrid. However it all depends on how will Honda Malaysia load up the specs list. We are quite doubtful that it will be cheaper than the Civic Hybrid. The bespoke body alone justifies additional premium on the price tag. Unless a sub-RM100k Insight is proven to be able to draw an entirely different crowd from City / Civic owners, it could have some negative impact on Honda's Melaka plant capacity utilization rate.
Our only concern is that the Insight does not have an electrically driven air-con compressor like the Prius / Civic Hybrid to cut cost. It relies on minimising the engine idle auto start-stop period to maintain cabin temperature, drastically reducing the any gains fuel economy in urban traffic. In the Prius / Civic Hybrid, the air-con continues to run even when the engine is shut down by drawing power from the hybrid battery pack. The omission in the Insight is certainly not an ideal condition solution for our climate in Malaysia.
Honda Jazz Hybrid - mid / late 2011?
Deliveries in Europe and Japan will start in early 2011. Has the same powertrain as the Insight.
No word on introduction on this side of the world yet.
Honda CR-Z
Safe to say this will not be made available here. It's makes very little business sense to invest in supporting a niche product whose volume potential is made even more narrow by its two-door body style. The CR-Z is a hybrid car for mature markets where hybrids are already considered mainstream.
Next generation Civic Hybrid (9th generation) - estimated late 2012 / 2013
More on that here.
Proton Hybrid - at most this will only be a mild hybrid, incorporating engine start-stop function with a simple brake energy recovery device. Lotus have a couple of demonstrator vehicles (on a Gen.2 and a Evora) but we doubt it is realistic to put this to production at this point of time considering the skills of the present local supply chain. At most it will be licensed technology, but nowhere near the sophistication of current hybrid technology leaders; Honda and Toyota.
Lexus RX450h - end 2010?
Volkswagen Touareg Hybrid - end 2011?
Will prices drop further?
No. All applicable taxes (except sales and road tax) have already been abolished. You may have read news that the Prius will also be assembled by Thailand. However Toyota Motor Thailand has no intention to export these. Plus, the current local content rate makes the Prius not eligible for preferential tariff rate under AFTA. So sourcing for the Prius will still remain with Japan for now, until Thai suppliers get up to speed with production of hybrid components - which is unlikely happen anytime within the next 5 years time frame.
Related link :
For debates on diesel vs hybrid, read an earlier post here.
We mentioned quite a fair bit about boot space measured in litres. How are these figures derived? Of course they didn't fill up the boot with water! Read an earlier post here.
1 comments:
nice read :P
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